Independent Study Confirms PoE Texas’ Denton DBI Costs Less Than Traditional AC
Resorts World and its electrical contractor have finally answered the most important question facing PoE lighting and automation. Can a Power Over Ethernet lighting system compete in price with what gets installed today?
They performed an exhaustive, electrical contractor-led analysis of the total costs comparing a managed lighting system using PoE to an unmanaged traditional AC lighting installation, and the results stunned them.Â
Denton DBI SavingsÂ
Their analysis says yes, a PoE Texas-managed solution costs less than traditional AC even without controls. They were so impressed with the results, they agreed to make them public.
As the basis for comparison, the light control system for the AC solution included standard dimming while the PoE solution included customized group controls provided by Electronic Theater Control (ETC) touchscreens. Conspicuously excluded from the estimated results is the specified ETC which would have increased the AC overall price by $100,000.
In the cost analysis, the quote comparison shows an overall reduction in material cost when utilizing PoE, due to:
Exclusion of steel conduit
Reduced copper wire
Fewer circuit panels
Equivalent Performance
In the technical analysis, PoE outperformed the comparable High-Voltage system in lumen to power efficiency due to PoE’s control fidelity. At a lower price point PoE allows the end user to easily manage each fixture individually or control them collectively in a group setting with precision not cost-effectively available for a basic AC solution.
In summary,the traditional AC hardware and material priced at $129,000 vs. PoE at $97,000. The cost of labor increases when installing PoE because each fixture requires individual addressing and programming, resulting in higher labor costs.
This raised the labor cost for PoE to $104,000, while traditional AC was at $99,000. Regardless, in total, the final cost for a lighting installation using Traditional AC Power came to $274,984, while PoE only cost $240,656.58.
Concluding the Study
In the final analysis, the integration of PoE controls far exceeded the basic savings as it met theatrical standards without any additional expense resulting in savings far beyond 15%. With a true control system comparison, PoE Texas saves more than $134,000. This study highlights that PoE, and PoE Texas’ Denton Digital Building Intelligence (DBI) in particular, delivers a significant cost advantage with built-in controls, material cost reduction, automation capabilities, and lack of integration expenses over even basic traditional AC systems.
Resorts World discovered they could have a fully managed lighting system for less than the cost of their basic lighting package.
Top Questions Answered by CTO, Joe Herbst, and CEO, Tyler Andrews
There are a lot of questiosn floating around online and in conversation about PoE Lighting and Automation. Joe and I will try to answer those questions in this blog. Don’t find the answer you need? You’re always welcome to reach out to us at:
Has PoE lighting known to have been installed on any military installations?
Joe: We have one installation in a military SCIF facility (no internet no wireless allowed, Made in America)
Is there any information about residential use?
Joe: yes we have several residential sites – contact me for plans and drawings jherbst@poetexas.com. Or click on the link on the bottom of the page to schedule a meeting.
Do you have any use cases in hospital or clinical environments?
Joe: We have a assited living and Urgent care facilites that are PoE lighting control based.
Change is hard. How to leverage the need for PoE professionals for projects? Should I look for professionals with specific Certifications (besides electrician) for this job?
Answer:
Joe: Agreed. We have had great success with data installers and electricians vested in staying in touch with the evolution of tech. It is less about the historical skill set and more about their intellectual curiosity and willingness to learn. We train electricians at EJATCs and have had very positive results. We have also been successful teaching lighting and controls to datacom folks.
Sales and Marketing
What is the cost per sq ft savings that I can tell my client what percentage of savings they will see in real numbers?
Joe: We typically see 30% CAPEX (total installed) savings and 30-50% OPEX (operational expenses) savings.
Was the cost savings (60%) in copper based upon comparing a single run of #14/2 vs numerous runs (how many?) of 23awg UTP?
Joe: You typically need #14/5 to support dimming and be code compliant. Line, neutral, ground, Dim+ and Dim- Relative to AWG14 2 wire that we use that is a 60% savings in material.
Tyler: The other aspect of copper savings is in the reduction of electrical runs. To wire a traditional AC system, you have to run 14/2 from the breaker panel to all the lights in series and run to any light switches you’d like to control those lights. With PoE, those “connections” are done digitally. You can make the shortest, most efficient runs from the PoE switch to the fixtures or lights. Then you simply program any given light switch to control any desired fixture.
How do you sell a POE ligthing system to a client who has an existing normal lighting system? How do you convince the client to move over to the POE system?
Answer:
Joe: A conversion to PoE from an existing one is limited largely by sheetrock. If it is a substantial retrofit (down to studs) or new construction the pitch is easy. We sell rerofit kits that can get installed in the ceiling adjacent to the exisitng high voltage system and save money just on the efficiecies of LED over Fluerescent. See link for example https://shop.poetexas.com/products/dent-lk-c4-b
Tyler: Converting to a PoE managed lighting system doesn’t necessarily mean the customer has to tear out all of their existing lighting. A good PoE lighting control system can also manage non-PoE lights while looking the same for your customer. See our lighting control panels below. So invite your customer to upgrade their current lights without tearing them out and adding PoE lighting as the project/needs arise.
Is the cost savings in copper based upon comparing a single run of #14/2 vs numerous runs (how many?) of 23awg UTP?
Answer:
Joe: You typically need #14/5 to support dimming and be code compliant. Line, neutral, ground, Dim+ and Dim- Relative to AWG14 2 wire that we use that is a 60% savings in material
Would PoE Lighting be suitiable for residental like houses and condos, for example how about a 2400 sq ft house?
Answer:
Joe: Yes it would be suitable.
What might a cost comparison be between a traditional lighting system and a SPOG setup for something like a 10,000 sqft office building? Would there be savings over traditional copper conductors? Are NFPA 101 requirements easily met?
Answer:
Joe: Please see our Midas case study. A PoE based lighting/controls system saves typically 30% on the capital side and 40-70% on the operational side. Primary savings come from: 100% less conduit (steel), 60% less copper wiring (18 AWG vs 12 AWG), and removal of AC to DC conversion at each light fixture.
It is difficult to provide a good ROI for PoE lighting for new construction, as well as retrofit. Is the PoE Consortium working on accurate cost estimate tools that include ALL the factors to build and maintain the system?
Answer:
Joe: You are absolutely correct this is hard. The biggest savings (conduit and copper savings) are hard to get a good number around. I have talked to many master electricians and the best numbers I have are 250ft of conduit per junction, but I have found too much varaince in that to give you a confident number. Other factors include the reduction in panels (since the power distribution is through PoE and there is a “circuit breaker” built into each port).
Design
What percentage of space increase in the Telecom rooms/racks are experienced by adding poe lighting?
Answer:
Joe: This is a tough one to answer beyond ‘it depends’….so follow my logic. Average building has ~ 0.1-1W lighting per ft^2. so assume 1W. Each port can feed 90W – so assume each port feeds 100ft^2 for easy math. Each switch then supports ~ 2400 ft^2 – round to 2500 for convenient math. Assume 1 full rack of equipment supports 10 24 port switches ~25k ft adds one rack of equipment. Be conservative and cut that in half for quoting
Tyler: We have a detailed package we share with designers to estimate the space, rack room, and cooling they’ll need for their PoE lighting system:
Who does the design to confirm proper light levels per code?
Answer:
Joe: We do design based on experience but if you want a formal lux map lighting layout we can connect you with a certified LC or engineer. We use the same IES files as a high voltage equivalent.
Tyler: We can provide a design with the IES file inputs that an architect and/or lighting designer can use to confirm the final design. If your customer doesn’t have access to someone for that and it’s a requirement for the job, we can call in partners who do this kind of thing every day for our customers.
Is Exit Lighting allowed to be PoE?
Answer:
Joe: Exit lights can be powered by 24VDC. We take a PoE 24v splitter and attach all the exit sign to one of the PoE switches that has EM backup AND use exit signs that have 90 minute battery backups
Tyler: We have multiple options for achieving PoE enabled exit lighting including a range of fixtures and methods. We customize the solution to fit the job.
How many lights can be supported from one 90 watt switch port?
Answer:
Joe: Typical examples are: 4 20W 2×2 panels, 3 25W 2×2 panels, 2 40W panels but no reason you can not do 10 8W fixtures or 12 5W fixtures.
Can this system also handle security, ie instead of cameras?
Answer:
Joe: This system can incorporate cameras into the control of lighting or messaging. So a camera can let us know motion was detected. We then connect that to actions such as “turn on the lights and if it is after 10pm text the security guard” or the camera tells up 5 people are in a conference room – we can send a message to the HVAC to tun on ventilation.
What is the recomended CAT cable?
Answer:
Joe: cat6 or better ; cat5e is also ok
Tyler: The key is selecting a CAT rated cable with 23 awg or less so you can handle the power load. Many CAT 6 cables are already 23 awg, and some manufacturers like Superior Essex and Berk-tek make a CAT 5e cable with 23 awg for PoE lighting applications.
How do you handle emergency lighting? What about potential switch failure? How do you handle emergency lighting with UL924 or UL1008?
Joe: We design two network stacks – one UPS backed or connected to EM power, the other utility power. EM fixtures can then be connected to the EM network switches and have ability to go to 100% on utility power loss using a UL924 transfer switch – contact me for drawings.
Tyler: On the switch failure question, the best contractors we know intentially spread the lighting across multiple switches, basically ensuring that no one area would be totally affected by a single switch failure. It provides overall system redundancy.
In a typical PoE installation, are the back-of-house components typically housed in telecom, or electrical rooms? Who maintains and administers, the electrical dept. or IT dept.?
Joe: I have seen them housed in either or both closets. Who maintains it is more about the politics of the organization and who holds the purse strings but ultimately we can support facility managers up to CIO’s.
Tyler: We have started encouraging building owners and facility managers to own their own PoE switches separate from the IT infrastructure. It’s called OT infrastructure. Facility managers need control of their own network hardware, and IT managers are often happy to stay out of it.
Will you homerun to each driver and patch cord to each LED?
Joe: PoE Switch to driver (LINC) via cat6, then AWG18-2 to each fixture up to 4 fixtures. LINC usually sits in cable tray close to fixtures. For small facilities, put all the LINC nodes in the closet and just run 18-2 from closet to each of the fixtures.
Is there a sigle line drawing showing how the system is wired?
What is the function of PoE in the SPOG? Do the systems to be controlled or integrated have to be PoE energized?
Answer:
Joe: PoE is not a requirement. But the SPOG has to host a browser (to quickly adapt to changing information) and thus must have an ethernet or wifi connection for the data. PoE represents the dual benefit of data+power so if you have to pull wires to power a pane of glass why not bring data into the same cable and remove a lot of cost and complexity. The PoE w/r/t the system is just a backbone. Any legacy or future system can be incorporated into the data+power PoE paradigm but the “E” in PoE is where all devices have optimal connectivity given its prolific, trusted infrastructure. The “P” part essentially gets rid of wall warts and AC to DC conversion losses.
Are there provisions for ACL-type role assignment? I have diverse users with tiered levels of needed access (think: secretary, building admin, maintenance).
Answer:
Joe: Using the kiosk mode you can lock it to a specific “room” which only has certain buttons. But there is no difference between a “room” and a “person” or a “role” in our paradigm. So each POG (wallstation) can be locked to a specific page and you specify what is on that page. No limit to the number of pages. The Admin has access to all the pages and the setup for each. So yes we can support as many roles/people/rooms as you want and then have one POG locked to that web page.
Does the POE powered lighting emergency specification/code match the same duration and as 277VAC emergency lighting uptime?
Answer:
Joe: The PoE emergency lighting can be setup to provide whatever duration you want. Code stipulates 90 minutes but based on the number of fixtures and the size of the UPS you can exceed this. We don’t have the traditional restrictions of a fixed circuit wiring so you can add/move/remove any fixture from the emergency response system.
Is power dissipation in cable is an issue when using PoE?
Answer:
Joe: The power dissipation is incorporated into the PoE specification so you don’t need to worry about it. The maximum loss on a 100m (328ft) cat 6 is 18W so a 90W source would deliver 72W worst case. In most installations this power loss is typically less than 5W.
Is intelligent passive cabling preferable to monitor ports apart from active network?
Answer:
Joe: PoE is backward compliant with passive switches – it just offers the option to add power if the device (PD) on the other side negotiates to need some. If there is no negotiation then there is no power put on the line.
What is the future of SPOG based on NFPA 70 Article 726 "Class 4 Fault-Managed Power Systems"?
Answer:
Joe: The two are not directly coupled other than being new technology. Class 4 FMP is all about safety. Touch the line, cut the line, fault it in any way the source upstream cuts the power. To the degree the SPOG is not downstream from that power cut it can notify you of such events. So a SPOG can be on a seperate power distribution system but monitor fault events elsewhere in the network and give immediate notification of the event in whatever form you want (email, text, light turning red, web button flashing etc).
Does each device need a separate license to be purchased? For the end user, as one tenant may have multiple user's at different rooms?
Answer:
Joe: No recuring fees – comes with lifetime license. Each SPOG can be limited to only display the elements in that room and not have visibility to other rooms.
Should we use separate networks or VLANs for all PoE devices?
Answer:Â
Joe: Lighting should ideally be a separate network but a separate VLAN at a minimum. Lighting is latency sensitive – press a button and you must respond in less than half a second. Having a network that has media streaming interfere with that is undesirable.
Hardware
What is the controller with the USB stick? What does it do? Who makes it?
Answer:
Joe: We make the controller – it is called a CORTAP. It is the “air traffic controller” for the building
Joe: Our 24 port 2.1kW all ports 90W capable + 3000W dual hot .swappable rectifier sells for $1800.
Tyler:
What is a rectifier? Who makes it?
Answer:
Joe: The rectifier converts AC (120VAC to DC (53VDC) up to 3000W
Tyler: We have it made for us by a trusted partner.
How compatible are the lighting systems/software with BMS platforms like Niagara? Can data be shared to allow for lighting occupancy sensors to also control mechanical systems?
Answer:
Joe: The gateway can connect to a Niagra system and share information such as occupancy status.
Would this have its own application to control the system or could it be integrated into a BMS system such as Jonhson Controls Metasys?
Answer:
Joe: It has its own management software, connects to conventional wallswitches and occupancy sensors. It can also connect to other systems like JC through relay contact closures or through our REST API interface.
Most heat load happens at the fixture, not at the data switch, correct?
Joe: AC to DC conversion is not efficient and one of the benefits of PoE is you remove that heat loss at each fixture.
Tyler: Most of the heat loss is in the rectifier followed by the PoE switch. The heat losses at the fixture are minimal.
Where are we getting "fancy" fixtures? Seems like we only see flat panels & strips.
Joe: We do fancy fixtures as well as plain jane light bulbs and grid lighting. We support almost any type of fixture.
Tyler: If it’s LED, you can likely make it PoE powered. If you’d like ideas on cool light fixtures already PoE approved, we recommend visiting our friends at LED Industries who make some really cool fixtures.
Tyler: We have a full package we share on all of our products.
Do you know of a rack mounted UPS brand/model that is UL rated for emergency lighting?
Joe: We resell a UL924 EM battery backup system
Tyler: Unfortunately, no one yet has a rack mounted UPS system with a UL 924 rating. We have to go off rack for now. But we’re working hard to make that a reality.
Can four 20W fixtures on a single 90W port be controlled individually or must a home run to each fixture be required to control separately?
Joe: Each can be controlled individually
Tyler: The LINC has 4x outputs, so you can control each output independently if you’d like.
Do the fixtures come with a POE driver or are they field installed?
Joe: The LINC is the PoE driver and you can retrofit 98% of the lights today by bypassing the AC driver and connecting the LINC output to the LED +/LED- of the fixture.
Tyler: Some brands will pre-install the driver into a light fixture. Our experience has been, though, that no matter what fixture we install a driver into, it will not be the fixture the architect, designer, or owner wants. It also reduces the efficiency in field wiring because then every fixture needs a homerun CAT cable. So, we opted to allow for field wiring.
How easy is it to swap out the main displays on wallstations should it be damaged, and what (if any) set up would be required to return the system to full functionality?
Answer:
Joe: If you had a spare wallstation it is literally plug in the new one and it auto updates. That is the beauty of making it a web page and putting it into kiosk mode. It has one job and it does that one job in a “plug and play” way.
Do you provide 90W PoE switches?
Answer:Â
Joe: We provide one that does 90W per port and we have a 24 port version and an 8 port version (so 2.1kW and 720W respectively) Cisco, transition networks also offer switches but may not support all 24 ports at 90W.
Installation
May have missed it, however for the Project did you utilize licensed electricians to complete the install or structured cabling technicians? If you used the cabling techs, did they have a license or certified in structured cabling, and what license or certificate did they have?
Answer:
Joe: No electricians needed! Anyone can install it but structured cabling folks with experience with cat cable are ideal. No certification needed because it is all class 2 power. But we recommend and refer people with certifications so they can install and quote with minimal challenges or oversights.
Tyler:
I've seen systems in the past in which you effectivly have to chop off one end of the Category cable to terminate onto a Phoenix connector or some other type of connector. Is all of this now actually just RJ45 plug and play?
Answer:
Joe: The cat6 is IEEE802.3bt compliant – it is not just a RJ45 connection to 8 wires. It is standard compliant. The LINC driver has PoE input and 18AWG-2 wires out to the LED and performs the driver function of the LED.
Tyler: It depends on the manufacturer, however, we have made all of our devices to accept RJ-45 connectors where they connect using the CAT cable.Â
Do you run into cases where the CAT cable for the lighting has to be installed in conduit for physical security or protection?
Joe: No. Outside of Cook County IL a cable tray or JHOOK is acceptable.
Tyler: While it’s always best to check the local code standards – by the way, this can easily be done with a quick visit to the city to simply ask what you need to know – we’ve found 99% of municipalities are excited to see PoE lighting. However, you and the owner may decide that in certain key areas potentially exposed to weather or vandalism do require conduit.
Can contractors do commissionings and field functional changes?
Joe: yes – if you can navigate a web page – I will train anyone interested.
Tyler: Yes, Joe is serious. He has a one hour online tutorial you can do through Zoom which will show you all the major steps in wiring, commissioning, and programming a system. Click in the link at the bottom of the page to schedule your own training.
Is the Best Practice to restrict length of run to 100m due to voltage drop or balancing properly spaced Telecom rooms?
Joe: yes cat6 < 100m to conform to standard.
Tyler: I would extend that answer to “it depends”. Our 8 port PoE++ switches accept Fiber data and are designed to be installed in enclosed spaces like ceilings. So you can either choose to have telecom rooms spaced around the facility or you can choose a distributed network system where switches are mounted in the ceilings. The Sinclair Marriot has a distributed network system like that. It’s a design preference. Â
Does each switch and light fixture require a home run cable?
Tyler: No. Most manufacturers, including us, allow you to control multiple fixtures from one node. For example, in our case, the LINC has four output channels. You can control anywhere from one to ten fixtures depending on type and functionality.
Can this system be installed by Data Technicians and Electricians? All copper cabling, correct?
Answer:Â
Joe: Anyone can install it. Since it is class 2 you do not need a license to install it. AWG 18-2 and cat6 are all you need.
What is the typical rack space PoE light consumes? Maybe in a patch panels/sq ft?
Answer:
Joe: ROUGH estimates: 0.5W/SF each 2U rack space hosts 2.1kW of power or ~ 4k SF.
Integration
How many SPOG interfaces can you have on the system and can you limit the level of access?
Answer:
Joe: We can restrict access and no limit to the number of interfaces. We believe in a layered UI approach allowing you to delve down the “rabbit hole” as far as you want.
Is the SPOG similar or does it interface with building automation systems (BAS)?
Answer:
Joe: The SPOG can take information from the BAS and be a UIX point for that. BAS systems vary wildly so I have yet to see a consistant interface that crosses manufacturers and they are typically tied to a proprietary agenda (ex Lutron, Honeywell, JCI etc).
Can you list some of the more prevalent open standards you integrate around? BACnet? MODBUS? MQTT/REST/JSON?
Answer:Â
Joe: REST/JSON are our basis of design. We have done integration with BACNET via IP calls and relay closures. MQTT is on the Q1 roadmap. MODBUS is a VERY old standard. We could interface to it if the business case made sense but when you have 1Gbs available on PoE it is hard to go back to buad rates that have k in them 🙂 We also interface to DALI (Also slow), DMX, enocean, zigbee, BLE and wifi.Â
What integrations are common with security/access control systems? What are on the horizon?
Answer:
Joe: A common integration is FOB, keypad or App (bluetooth) entry via a reciever. The acesss event is matched against a database and the point of access (ie door number). If an affirmative match is found then the door is opened via a mag lock, door strike or bar for some time (ex 10 seconds) and then the lock is reapplied. The lock can also have a manual “request button” that can connect with a human (local or remote) and a camera to then support manual opening of the door (local or remote). These are all available today. We can also do other actions like setting lights to a specific level in a specific room or set the temp on the thermostat to a desired level (ex weekend entry).
What is a common open standard for the SPOG?
Answer:Â
Joe: REST API – it is the standard that runs on every web page on the planet.
Is the SPOG just software operating a typical wall screen?
Answer:
Joe: SPOG in our paradim is a touch interactive web page put into kiosk mode (so single purpose). The content for the web page is served up by our cortap server who is responsible for the controls and data collection of all the components for the building. Part of this is integration with other systems, part of this is direct control over devices but all tied together in one UI.
Is there a specific software that is easier to integrate or can any access control system be integrated to it?
Answer:Â
Joe: Any access control system can be integrated into our system that hosts a dry contact relay closure. More sophisticated ones we can connect to through an API and a commmunication medium (wired or wireless) Our PoE LINC devices control 12/24/36/48 V devices including door locks and can be tied to any stimulus event (ex relay closure or REST API call).
Ready to Learn More?
Click here to schedule some quality one-on-one time with our CTO, Joe
If you’ve had an interest in what Power over Ethernet can do, or how it can be used for your everyday devices, then look no further. In this page, you’ll see how accessible it can be to turn your home into a POE powered living space. So many commonly used devices such as TV streaming sticks, speakers, smart watch chargers, and even lights can be powered by POE. You don’t need a licensed electrician to install Power Over Ethernet so the projects you can do are endless.
*Click the image to watch the video tutorial
Why Did We Create This Page for You?
To some of you, the idea of PoE might seem intimidating, or considered for commercial use only. Some of you may not have even heard of this technology at all until you landed on this page. As someone who did not have an infrastructure or networking background, I’m here to tell you that Power over Ethernet is for everybody! PoE is user friendly and makes network technology more accessible than you might think.
Our goal in building out this page is to offer a resource that encourages you to try POE. Whether it’s your first venture with this technology, or if you’re looking for new ways to implement these solutions, we hope this guide provides new ideas for you.
How Can You Utilize POE Technology in a Residential Setting?
Other online guides will likely reference Voice Over IP (VOIP) phones, Wireless Access Points (WAPs), or security cameras as the go-to devices to use with Power over Ethernet. While these devices are very common installations with this technology, that’s not all you can do. With the help of this guide, you’ll see how we were able to power six, non-POE devices from one power source, at various distances and power requirements. Keep reading to find out how you can, too!
Do you have an existing router, or network switch that provides your data? Then you’ve already got step 1 covered! This router is going to be the data source for POE equipment. The “E” in POE does stand for Ethernet, after all. Step 2 is to get your hands on some ethernet, or category, cable. We’ll say to get cat5e or higher, but odds are you have some spare patch cables in your home that can be used. The ethernet cable will pass data traffic from your router to the POE injector. A POE injector will then add power to the data cable that allows you to power your POE compatible device, and provide wired data over the same line. Be sure to check out our PoE Basics page for further reference into the industry standards and benefits.
GATS-10-8-51v120w
Ethernet cable with RJ45 connection
Most of the devices you charge or use every day are likely not designed to be POE enabled, but that’s not a problem. Welcome to the world of POE converters. POE converters are available in lower, non-POE voltage options such as 5V, 12V, or 15V with various connector types (DC, USB-A, Lightning, USB-C, MicroUSB, etc.) for your DC or USB devices. Though one main benefit of POE is power + data cable on one cable, please note that devices 1-5 listed below will only need power; not wired data. These devices either use WiFi, or don’t need data at all. Device 6 will use wired data, though.
Device 1: Nest IQ Camera
A Nest IQ camera takes 15v15w of power via USB-C to operate. It is also a WiFi camera, so we don’t need to bring in a data connection for this port on our injector. Once your POE switch or injector is setup, run a cat5e cable from one POE port into the input RJ45 connection of the GAT-USBC-REV2 converter (splitter). Two LED indicators on the splitter will turn on, indicating the splitter is receiving power from the injector and ready to connect to your Nest IQ. You’ll now connect the USB-C to USB-C cable (included with Nest) from the splitter to the back of the camera. Wait a few seconds for the camera to display a blue LED ring and your ready to go!
Device 2: Charging an Apple Watch
GAF-USB
The smart watch charger we used pushes out 5V10W over a USB-A connection. You’ll run a cat5e cable from one POE port into the input RJ45 connection of our GAF-USB converter. Once you see those two LED lights turn on, you can connect your device. Simply plug the watch charger (USB-A male) into the 1.35mm-USB-A (female) cable adapter that’s provided with the GAF-USB. The charging plate for the watch should now have 5v10w of available power.
Device 3: Amazon Fire TV Stick
Using the same splitter as above, we will only need to swap out the DC cable connector on the GAF-USB. Instead of the USB-A option, we will use the 1.35mm-MicroUSB. The Gen1 Fire TV Stick takes 5V5W so the splitter has enough power for this device.
Device 4: Anker Bluetooth Speaker
Follow steps for device 3.
Device 5: LED Strip Lights
GAT-12v25w
The LED strip lights in this tutorial are rated for 12V DC, less than 25W of power. Still using the same POE injector/switch, connect the GAT-12V25W splitter to an open port. Similar to the previous converters, power light indicators should turn once connected. The sensor for the lights has an integrated cable that fits into the splitter, so no additional cable was needed. After you plug the sensor into the 2.1mm female DC on the converter, your lights can be adjusted to your liking.
Device 6: Google Home
The final device we’ll use in this tutorial is the Google Home. The Google Home version we used is powered by 5V9W over USB-C. For this application we used the GAT-5V20W with a 2.1-USBC cable. The GAT-5v20w has the same input design as the previous splitters, so you’ll want to watch for those power LEDs to turn on after you bring in power from your injector. The 2.1-USBC cable will then connect the splitter to the Google Home for power. The Home will actually accept wired data from a separate RJ45 connection so we can utilize the output data port on the splitter. On the output side of the splitter, run a patch cable from the female RJ45 to the LAN port on the router. You’re all set!
Congratulations! You just walked through how to power six, non-POE devices using your existing infrastructure. Other devices you can add to your network are tablets, laptops, monitors, and even lighting fixtures.
Ready to Go A Step Further?
You can install smart blinds, lighting fixtures, wall station controls, and so much more with the newest standard 802.3bt (POE++). Learn more about using POE for building automation through our Denton Digital Building Intelligence (DBI) catalog. Schedule a call or send us a question to get in touch with an expert!
Top 2 Pitfalls in Laying Out a PoE Lighting and Automation System
If you’ve never designed a PoE based lighting and automation system, watch out for these two crucial pitfalls that can make your project much harder than it needs to be.
Visit our PoE Lighting and Automation section to learn more, download the product catalog, or download the designer tool kit with template drawings and technical information you need to get started.
Whether you’re new or experienced design professional, you can learn the top 3 strategies for laying out the controls for a PoE automated lighting system.
Join our CTO, Joe Herbst as he presents the top 3 things you need to know about how to properly lay out a PoE lighting control system.
You can watch the video training . . . or just download the presentation at the link below.
Visit our PoE Lighting and Automation section to learn more, download the product catalog, or download the designer tool kit with template drawings and technical information you need to get started.
Running Into Charging Issues with Your PoE+ to USB-C Converter or Other PoE Devices?
There’s a little known default feature in your Cisco enterprise switch that prevents you from getting the most out of your PoE+ devices, especially when using a PoE+ to USB-C converter for iPad Pro, Surface Go, Samsung Tab, and other devices.
While your Cisco 9400 or 9300 model switches are rated for PoE+ and capable of negotiating PoE+ class 4 devices, they will default to only negotiating 15.4 watts with your PoE converter unless you configure your switch for 2 event classification. USB-C devices, including the Surface Go and Surface Go 2, require 18 watts or more to charge properly and communicate. You can see why below
In that case, you’ll know the default setting is wrong because:
1 – You’ll see the port only negotiates 15.4 watts of power
2 – Your USB-C device will either not charge properly or will begin to lose battery charge even if it shows it is charging
Click Here to See the Cisco Instructions
Configuring Your Enterprise Switch for 2 Event Classification
Fortunately, it’s a quick, well-documented setting you just need to update for the ports you’re planning to use for your PoE+ device. You can find the instructions from Cisco here:
Simply put, LLDP and USB are not compatible power standards. They simply work differently.
While we recognize the huge benefits to our customers to not require them to reconfigure their switches, the challenge comes down to what LLDP is and how USB works. LLDP is designed for computers and processors to share vital information with each other at the lowest level possible which works great for an end device like a computer or a phone with a processor on-board and its MAC address, in particular for our case one that can boot and start communicating in a low power mode.
Unfortunately, USB-C devices and the USB protocol doesn’t behave that way. Take a Microsoft Surface Go or an iPad Pro, for example. Their default initial power demands are 18-22 watt PD profiles. If you connect a USB-C hub or dock that offers to provide power to the device without the correct power delivery profiles sufficient to charge the battery, it will reject the device and disable the USB-C port which protects your device from defective or improperly built USB devices. You want that.
On the other hand, it is the end device like the PC or tablet that does LLDP communication with the network once it is connected. So it will not connect to the network through the USB-C port until it has received a correct power profile from the hub.  So in this case, the iPad Pro or Surface Go cannot communicate its power requirements back to the network switch until after it has received sufficient power to make the connection.
And, since you’ll likely point out that the LLDP can happen before you connect the power by disabling the USB-C PD, yes, you can conceivably start with a charged tablet negotiating power then turning on the Power Delivery charging. There are two challenges there as well:
1 – We would need to customize the LLDP drivers on all devices which is considered basically a change to the kernal level programming since this communication works at the lowest levels. Device manufacturers control that very carefully and will be slow to consider that change.
2 – Even if we did achieve that level of change, if the device drains the battery for any number of reasons including power outages or being disconnected for a time, the tablet or PC would be unable to charge, boot up, connect LLDP, and start battery charging without the PD profile. Experience has shown customers cannot guarantee that only charged devices will connect to the network.
So, yes, making switch changes does drive an added layer of configuration, the change provides more reliable and consistent performance in all situations with your USB-C device.
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You’ve seen the new USB Type C ports appearing on your new devices, like the one on your new tablet or laptop. Perhaps you’ve even seen some of the specifications for how it can communicate a lot of data very quickly and provide power for monitors and other larger devices. USB-C is cool, there’s no doubt about that.
So, let’s talk about how to integrate it into your smart building.
As a standard USB-C offers amazing communication speeds and power delivery up to 100 watts. At first glance, it looks like the one cable to rule them all. Google, Microsoft, Apple, Dell, Samsung, and more have switched to the new powerful USB-C port.
Unfortunately, it does have a weakness. A USB-C cable can only transmit power less than ten feet (three meters), and the cable infrastructure comes at a cost premium. On the other hand, ethernet cable, nearly ubiquitous in modern buildings, can transmit power and data 328 feet (100 meters). USB-C power and data transmitted over Power Over Ethernet significantly lowers the cost of adopting USB-C by eliminating the need for new electrical infrastructure. How can you combine the convience of PoE with the power of USB-C?
Comparing USB-C and PoE Features
A quick comparison of the USB-C and PoE features will highlight why combining PoE and USB-C adds the most value to intelligent building infrastructure.
Specifications
Things You Should Know about USB-C
USB-C
USB 3.1 features 10 Gbps
USB-C can also have other USB specs at low data spees
Maximum cable length – 15 ft
Cables longer than 10 ft have a significant cost premium
Up to 100 watts Power Delivery (PD)
Power Delivery (PD) means your USB-C devices negotiate for just the right power they need
60 watt (PD) – think laptop – is the most common type
Reversable connector head
Specifications
Things You Should Know about PoE
PoE
10 Gbps available
Most ethernet switches are 100 Mbps or Gigabit
Maximum cable length – 100 m or 330 ft
Can be extended with signal boosters
Up to 90 watt Power
IEEE 802.3bt Type 4 power requires actually 72 watts of power delivered
PoE – 12 watts and PoE+ – 25 watts
CAT 5e or CAT 6 Cable
Convert Power over Ethernet to Power and Data on one cable for USB-C
PoE Texas has developed the patent pending converter that connects Power Over Ethernet to USB Type C with both power and data communication.
The converter interfaces the two standards seemlessly so there are no configurations to set and no programming to do. Â
Simply plug and play
PoE to USB-C Specifications
These Specifications Develop Over Time, So Check the Part Specifications
PoE to USB-C
UBS 2.0 to PoE – 95 Mbps
Gigabit available upon request
Maximum cable length – 100 m or 330 ft
Can be extended with signal boosters
Up to 25 watt Power (IEEE 802.3at)
Sufficient for iPad Pro and Surface Go
90 watt or IEEE 802.3bt power available on request
Go ahead . . . hit the easy button just this once.
INTRODUCTION
Have you hit the Ethernet barrier – 330 ft – and still need more distance?
 If you’re like many people, myself included, a sense of betrayal comes with discovering for the first time that the world spanning internet you see coming into your computer can only travel 100 meters or 330 ft on Ethernet cable. You ask yourself, “really? Three hundred or so feet is as far as you can get?” Now you’re job is just that much harder.
Fortunately the real answer to that question is “most of the time”.Â
 When Power Over Ethernet gets involved, you can stretch your data signal – and even the power – much further . . . up to about a half a kilometer. We’ll cover in this white paper how to break your Ethernet barrier to send power and data much further than conventional wisdom allows.
HOW THIS IS ORGANIZED:
Please, please, don’t read this whole thing straight through because there’s a lot of information in here that you likely don’t need.  We’ve organized this white paper into different sections so you can navigate to just the sections you need and no more. Pick which sections below you need based on what you already know:
 EXPLORER: If you know nothing about PoE and how to extend your data signal, start with the CONCEPTS to learn how PoE extensions work SOPHOMORE: If you have the concepts down but aren’t quite sure how and went to apply them, go to the APPLICATIONS section EXPERT: You know the concepts and how you should apply it, but you have questions about the details of how to make this work in your application, see CONFIGURATIONS BEFUDDLED: You’ve already tried making your application work, now you need help figuring what went wrong, or you’re trying to avoid some common mistakes, head to TROUBLESHOOTING CURIOUS: Regardless of where you’re at, you can always speak to a PoE Shifu (master) by making time for a CONSULTATION
CONCEPTS
Why do I have to extend my Ethernet?
For a full explanation let’s get Physical (#engineerjoke). First, the Ethernet Physical Layer – in plain English how we actually send signals over copper wires – works by sending really, really fast pulses of + 2.5 and – 2.5 volts of electricity.  When the volts are HIGH (2.5 volts) we call it a 1. When the volts are LOW (-2.5 volts) we call it a 0. Thus a bit of binary is born!
Ah the magic of logic. And boys and girls, when a 1 and 0 get together and love each other very much, 8 times to be exact, we call it a byte.
But . . . even the best wires in the world have some resistance. What starts out in the beginning as 2.5 volts wears away as it trudges down the copper wires of Category cable. Eventually the electrons have gotten so tired they stop being excited at all. We can all blame Georg Simon Ohm for this. He’s the one who made Ohm’s Law.
To help us deal with our grief our good friends at IEEE (pronounced I – triple – EEE) set a standard that, as long as you’re on CAT 5 or higher cable, your network device has to at least send and receive signals that can travel 100 m (330 ft). So, that’s what we all do.Â
 For my detail oriented friends, yes, of course some brave souls have made their switches or cables to go further than the minimum. But, like all good standardized testing situations, if you can just do the minimum, why wouldn’t you?
All very interesting, you say, but what has Power Over Ethernet got to do with how far Ethernet signals can travel?
 I’m so glad you asked. Remember that measly +2.5 and – 2.5 volt signal? Well, with Power Over Ethernet the signal gets to ride on a super charged tsunami of power up to 56 volts. Much like a real tsunami, that wave can travel much, much further. Yes, the 2.5 volt signal still tuckers out at about 100 meters, but we can use that tsunami of power to create a truck stop where the 2.5 volt signal can get a shot of caffeine, stretch its legs, and head out for another 100 meters. Then, when it gets tired again, we boost the signal again. Rinse and repeat until the 56 volts goes too far to keep powering devices.
 How far is that? Â
 Depending on what you’re powering at the other end, it’s about a half a kilometer.
Saving Time and Money
Here’s where you can save time and money with PoE. If you need to get your data signal just a little bit further, you could buy a media converter to change your Ethernet signal into a wireless backhaul (think really powerful wifi access points that beam their data along a line of sight) or into fiberoptic cable or into some analog signal on coaxial cable.  But I still haven’t found anyone handing out free media converters (please comment on this blog if you know where they do ’cause I want them). So, why pay to change your data into a wireless signal or convert to fiber optic when you can just go a little further with PoE?
In the next section, I’ll discuss the applications where leveraging PoE will save you time and money over other data transmission options.
APPLICATIONS
WISP WITHOUT Line of Sight
You’ve done the hard work to get internet service to literally almost the last mile, but terrain, trees, or a structure block line of sight for your wireless back haul. What options are you left with?
Add another wireless repeater station to jump around or over the obstructionÂ
Find another tower with line of site that has less than optimal conditions or will cost you more
Run an extra long PoE run to the signal side of the obstruction
With the right chain of PoE Extenders, you can literally get around any obstacles in the last 900 ft in your Point to Point or Point to Multi Point network.Â
We’ll cover a variety of configurations including some bonus Cambium alternatives we haven’t found anywhere else.
A Remote Security Camera
You’re trying to find the right place to put an exterior mounted security camera on a large property. For some reason you don’t want all your security cameras to be within 300 ft of the nearest switch. As long as you’re less than a 990 ft run, you can run the camera power and data to where you want cameras to be.
The Final Few Meters (or Feet)!
You’ve done all the calculations on a particular run, and it’s long but doable. Then you find out some doofus put an elevator shaft in the way. There’s no way to make the run without getting dangerously close or over the 100 meter (330 ft) barrier. Do you take the risk on the quality of the switch and cable and just make the run?Â
 Do you really want to get pestered for the rest of time by complaints about how this one device is never really reliable? Â
Get yourself a PoE Extender!
CONFIGURATIONS
Power Over Ethernet up to 200 Meters (660 ft) You’re ready to break the Ethernet Barrier: You only need to take PoE (IEEE 802.3af) or PoE+ (IEEE 802.3at) or even Passive (24 or 48 volt) PoE something over the 100 meter limit. Let’s make sure we think it through so you don’t have to keep running to your “Home Depot” to get more parts. By the way, I was told once that they have help groups for people who can’t stop going to Home Depot.Â
Considerations:
Where can you locate the PoE Extender? Will it be inside or outside?
Do you need waterproof, or will it be inside a building?
How and where will you mount it just in case you ever need to get back to it?
What am I powering? Does it need plane jane PoE or PoE+?
Does it need 10/100 data or Gigabit?Â
You use that information to select which extender fits your needs. You can click the image below to review the options we can offer.
Rather than tell you all the parts you know you’ll need. Here’s a parts list you might forget:
Depending on how you’re mounting it, you’ll want mounting screws
Extra RJ-45 connectors – male and/or female
Don’t forget the extra cable!
Wall box? Punch down tools?
Unless you’re doing doing something crazy like wireless backhaul or some unique PoE standard, it’s as simple as plugging the power and data from your switch or injector into the “In” side and your end device into the “Out” side. E viola!
PoE+ Up To 990 Ft (300 meters) Rinse and Repeat: The only real difference with going further is how much power you have at the Power Sourcing Equipment (PSE) and how much power you need at the other end. Â
How far can you go? Our diagram to the left tells you in general terms how far you can go with extenders. Just keep in mind you will use up power as you add Extenders. Â
 If you want to get more precise, you can use our PoE Calculator to determine the loss along the cable.  Rule of thumb: add 3 watts of power to the power consumed by your Powered Device (PD) for every extender you add. You can see exactly when you cross the 42 volt minimum threshold, and PoE has run its course.
24 Volt and/or Passive PoE (Ubiquiti or Mikrotik)
The Wild Child: Frankly, if you don’t immediately recognize 24 volt PoE or Passive PoE, don’t worry about it. Head back to the previous 2 configurations. 24 volt passive PoE is a misunderstood and often maligned type of PoE that I personally like, but you don’t just happen to “have it”. Back haul equipment from a few suppliers like Ubiquiti or Mikrotik use this type of PoE.
 If you do have 24 volt or Passive PoE, then we have the extender for you. You’ll need a female RJ45 to connect into the device and a male RJ45 on the output. This extender will pass the same PoE as it receives, less the line losses. I recommend checking your run on the PoE Calculator, and add 3 watts to the Powered Device (PD) for the extender. A note on this, though. 24 volt power runs out a lot quicker than 48 or 56 volt power. It’s unlikely you’ll be able to get more than one extender in the system.
 If you’d like to go further, you can. Simply use the extender you prefer with 48 volt or 56 volt power. Then, at the other end use the GAT-24v25w to convert the power back to 24 volt passive.
Cambium EPMP 450
 The One, the Only, Cambium: Okay, the fact that you’re here reading this is a testament to how well the EPMP 450 works even if it’s a pain in the #%$ to hook up because it uses a very unique type of PoE. But even here PoE Texas can help.
 The PoE-Extender will work with an EPMP 29 volt reverse polarity injector if you’re just going 200 m (660 ft).
 However, if you go longer like we mentioned above you can combine a 48 volt Mode B Injector or Switch to extend the power up to 990 ft (300 m), then at the EPMP 450 end you add a 48 volt PoE to 24 volt PoE converter (GAT-24v25w) with a Polarity Reversing Cable (CS-RJ45). See the schematic to the left. Boom! EPMP extended!
TROUBLESHOOTING
Need Troubleshooting Tools?
Check out our line of affordable, easy to use troubleshooting tools.
Troubleshooting Power (No Lights, nothing): 1 – Are you using the right PoE with the right Extender? See Configuration Sections about the different types of PoE you could encounter. 2 – Double check your run length to make sure you have exceeded the amount of power you can transmit over the run length.  Start with the PoE Calculator. Remember to add the extenders into the power load (estimate 3 watts per extender). Do you drop too low (<42 volts) at the PD end?  You can double check reality with a PoE-Tester. 3 – Confirm your switch and extender have the same Mode and Polarity.  What is Mode?  Basically, make sure you’re negotiating on Mode A from your switch/injector if your extender is Mode A. 4 – Have you done a cable check to make sure you’re terminated properly? At this point, you can also short cut test with a PoE Tester which will turn on your PoE port.
Nothing Happens When I Plug It In:Â
In the immortal words of the Hitchhiker’s Guide: DON’T PANIC. We can get through this. Grab your towel.
Check out the troubleshooting tips here. Then, before you go all Office Space  (Fast Fact: Office Space was based in Austin) on the equipment, you can always call our Austin-based Technical Support team to get some live support: 512-479-0317
Troubleshooting Data (Lights are on, but no one is home):
1 – Pull out your cable tester to make sure you have your pins terminated correctly. Did you intend to do a cross over cable? 2 – Do a simple “ping” to your end device to see if you have any communication. 3 – Okay, this may sound silly, but I’ve done this often. Double check where you’ve plugged into the network. Is there where it can get the right connectivity? 4 – Did you do the right set up for your device before you connected it to the network? Some devices (ahem, Ubiquiti) require you to do a set up directly connected to a computer before you add it to your network. Double check you device.
Thank you for your interest in DASH as your enterprise room scheduler.
We look forward to speaking to you about it. You can let us know how many devices you’re interested in and how long a lisence you’re interested in below. We’ll be in touch!
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Thank your for your interest in Denton Digital Building Intelligence. We will respond within 24 hours during the work week, however, most likely you’ll hear back from us much sooner than that. Phone: +1-512-479-0317 Email:success@poetexas.com
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